Talk:United States of America (Southern Victory)
Where did you find the dates for Reed and Mahan- Raylan Hum I used a Wiki article. -Redem Test, test Ok, let's live with this for a while before we start breaking it up further. I think the best way to do this is create a US (Short Stories), US (Stand-alone Novels) and then articles for the US in the various series. TR 23:29, January 9, 2012 (UTC) :Okay. What happens to the main USA page at that point? ::It becomes a disambiguation page, I suppose. Or we can leave the stories and novels in the article, and just pull out the series stuff. TR 05:22, January 10, 2012 (UTC) :::I'd like to leave the OTL "intro" in place, with the template, and each section giving a couple of sentences about the US's role in the story, with a link to the article on the story specific article indicating that more information is available there. We have so many articles with OTL historical content that connect to USA in general, not to any story section, that reducing the article to a mere disambiguation page just seems wrong. Turtle Fan 05:42, January 10, 2012 (UTC) ::::I think pulling out the "Crosstime Traffic" section with the sub-sections and the World War section would be good. The "Days of Infamy" can stay since its not going to grow and a two novel series can be treated like a stand-alone. The "The Man With the Iron Heart" sub-section is fairly long but probably could stay too unless the article is still unwieldy. This leaves "Supervolcano" which is effectively a stub right now. That probably will have to be separated out too. :::::Once we go down this rabbit hole I think we'll need to move the meat of every section to its own page, no matter how much or how little meat there might be; or if not its own page, a section on a page of several sections too flimsy to support their own articles. If people get used to looking for story-specific information on a separate page, we'd be screwing with them if some pages had their own and some didn't. (I have no idea how much traffic this site gets but I do like to err on the side of believing that our work here is relevant to more than just the small group that actually does it.) :::::And on the topic of multiple pages, what's the plan for categorizing? My recommendation is that we put each US satellite page in the category for the story(ies) to which it's relevant, and a category called something like Category:United States in Different Alternate Timelines, which would itself be a subcat of Category:United States. Nothing beyond that in most cases, except that in TL-191 here, we could remove the main US page from the CP category and swap this satellite page in. Turtle Fan 03:45, January 11, 2012 (UTC) ::::I'm not sure if a few sentence summary would add anything, rather than just a "See: ---" but I don't object. I think leaving it as a main article with the remaining stories and novels would probably be fine rather than creating a US (Short Stories) and US (Stand-alone Novels) articles. ML4E 00:10, January 11, 2012 (UTC) :::::Brief summaries would be useful for a hypothetical reader who was trying to decide whether to commit to reading a given story and was looking for the gist of it (we'd keep the summaries spoiler-free, of course) and for someone unfamiliar with the wiki's layout who would look at the United States article first; though in the latter case, links saying "See US in TL-191 would suffice. There's also the stylistic issue: If each section had only a link to another page, the article would essentially be a disambiguation page, and would raise the question of why we didn't just use the traditional disambig format. However, doing so would be a huge mistake; the wiki is full of articles with historical content relative to OTL only, which need a US page to link to. We might be able to get away with it for Denmark or Yugoslavia, but of course there'd be no point in doing so. Turtle Fan 03:45, January 11, 2012 (UTC) :This article looks good. That's mainly due to its length. That won't be true very often. Turtle Fan 02:54, January 10, 2012 (UTC) Maps A few maps of the United States in the Southern Victory timeline would be nice for the page. The maps should show the country after the War of Succession, the Second Mexican War, the Great War, and the Second Great War. Could somebody do this for me amd the wiki? 13:25, October 12, 2013 (UTC)Jacob Chesley 13:25, October 12, 2013 (UTC) Phasing out shorter link? My understanding is that the "United States (Southern Victory)" shortcut link to United States of America (Southern Victory) is being phased out, so I go around searching for it and add "of America" wherever I find it.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 19:58, May 15, 2016 (UTC) :Correct. That redirect was to a SV sub-section when this was not a separate article from the main USA one. Since it now exists as a unique SV article, the redirect is no longer needed and should be phased out. ML4E (talk) 20:03, May 15, 2016 (UTC) ::I just went on a rampage phasing out examples of this obsolete redirect. I should have got nearly all of them.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 11:52, August 18, 2016 (UTC) ::I checked with the "What Links Here" button and found about 30 left. We'll see what we can do. ML4E (talk) 17:09, August 18, 2016 (UTC) Stars on U.S. flag? I have a curious question about how many stars are on the U.S. flag in the "Southern Victory" timeline, particularly from the beginning of the Great War until the time of the Second Great War. Physically counting the states on the maps provided in Turtledove's The Great War series, there are 33 states in the Union, therefore 33 stars on the flag. With the admission of Kentucky and Houston to the U.S. in 1918, that would increase the stars to 35, not the 36 he mentions in Blood and Iron (p. 53 HB). Unless he's counting the occupied territory of Sequoyah, would that mean he contradicted himself (again!) since in The Center Cannot Hold he states (through Jake Featherston) that "Seqouyah remained occupied territory, while Houston and Kentucky were full-fledged U.S. states" (p. 311 HB), implying that it presumably didn't have the rights and privileges of a recognized state? :See Inconsistencies in Turtledove's Work#Inconsistencies in Southern Victory--we don't know either. It's a gaffeerror. TR (talk) 15:19, May 25, 2017 (UTC) : It's a goof/inconsistency, not a gaffe. A gaffe is a social faux pas.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 17:56, May 25, 2017 (UTC) Another question involves Utah. Under the "Utah Troubles" entry on this Wiki, it's says that it becomes a state in 1896 (just as in our timeline), but since it becomes occupied territory during much of the 20th Century, would that mean the state's star is removed from the flag? If that's the case, then combined with the above comment, there would only be 34 stars on the U.S. flag from 1918 until the 1940 plebiscite, when Houston and Kentucky return to the Confederacy, reducing the stars to 32. Yeah, I got a headache thinking about this and typing it out, too. Hopefully no one else will get one with an answer! Thanks!Wikimage (talk) 13:17, May 25, 2017 (UTC)Wikimage :Utah was never de-stated. It was under martial law and not always treated as a state, but it was never removed from the Union, either. So the star would remain. TR (talk) 15:19, May 25, 2017 (UTC) Links to the states Since the seceding states are listed and linked in the intro paragraph, we don't need them linked all over again in the first paragraph of the article proper.